A pregnant man? How do you feel about this story?

[MathSpeak]

This (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20187678,00.html) is a story about a trans-gendered person, now living as a man, who decides to become pregnant when he discovers his wife's infertility issues. What are your thoughts on it? I'm leaving it open-ended for now, but I'm sure I'll have more to ask as people comment...

[Beka]

I really can't see what is overly "wrong" with it- he has the biological function to get pregnant, he didn't even have to go to the same lengths many of us who have female factor infertility do to conceive, their child will be raised in a loving home which to the outside world will appear pretty much picture book perfect- mom, dad, little petie and a dog.

Plenty of kids out there grow up not having been born from the woman they know their entire life as mother, plenty of kids grow up in unconventional family set ups these days and they grow up as happy as the next kid.

When you look at it the actual pregnancy itself is possibilty the most "natural" thing he has done as an adult because it's a process he was born able to go through where as the being a man part is a life choice he's made.

To me, when i read it, it made alot of sense- I know when we had our struggles to conceive Jude and we would have needed a surrogate if i'd have had the option of that surrogate being my husband- the person who would play the role of their other parent reguardless- I'd have much preferred that over a random stranger or other friend/family.

Yes it's odd, yes it's grabbing headlines but all in all it's not really that unnatural- someone who can ovulate, with a uterus being pregnant. I guess the only bit I truly don't get is why, when half of the wifes family didn't even know he was transgender, are they chosing to present themselves to so much media exposure if all they want is a regular family life- if they'd have avoided mass media exposure (I have no doubt the store would have leaked but not to going on Oprah proportions) they'd have had the option of moving eventually and being entirely anonymous and a regular family again- national exposure has taken that chance from them which seems sad that anyone would chose to put that pressure on themselves and spotlight on their child.

[Lori]

I really can't see what is overly "wrong" with it- he has the biological function to get pregnant, he didn't even have to go to the same lengths many of us who have female factor infertility do to conceive, their child will be raised in a loving home which to the outside world will appear pretty much picture book perfect- mom, dad, little petie and a dog.

I agree. It's certainly unusual and sensational, but if he has a uterus and eggs, then I don't see anything wrong with his getting pregnant. I mean, what else should people do? Take the couple's baby away from them? Force him to have an abortion then get sterilized? It sounds like he didn't have sex reassignment surgery, but rather chooses to live as and identify as a man while still biologically a female, so it's really not all that strange. I do have to agree with Beka, though, that I don't understand why this family is going to the media.

In general, though, I find the idea of people living transgendered a little sad. I'm very open to changing my mind about this, but, unlike with being gay (where there is a lot of evidence indicating that gay and lesbian people are just as psychologically healthy as anybody else and that they come from the same backgrounds as anybody else), I've never seen any evidence that transgendered people are acting in psychologically healthy ways. I've known a few transgendered people, and from them and everything I've read on the topic, it seems to nearly always be a response to growing up in an environment where gender roles were extremely rigid (doing certain things or being certain ways were simply unacceptable for people of one gender) and often where homosexuality was entirely condemned (so that being gay became completely unthinkable to think). I can't help but think that, if they had a more expansive notion of what it meant to be a man or a woman, and/or weren't so entirely repelled by their attraction to people of the same sex, they would be able to live comfortably in their own skin. It does sadden me that they can't, and that they feel that being a woman or a man is so limiting that they must identify as the other gender to be who they are.

As I've said before, I don't think we'd just say, "Yeah, that's great and progressive!" if a black person began to identify as white and wanted to live as white (and went to great lengths to appear to be white), or if an older person went to great lengths to appear young and started "passing" as young. We'd probably see, in both cases, that the person's behavior was motivated by a lot of self-hatred, and that self-acceptance was the answer, rather than "passing." I feel like it would probably be more productive to treat people who want to identify as the other gender with the same attitude (while obviously not discriminating against or mistreating anybody who chooses to live as a transgendered person), and I don't understand why we see gender as so much different than race in this instance, but, again, it's something I'm certainly open to changing my mind about, and I realize I could be totally wrong and off-base.

That said, though, I doubt this man is any more psychologically unhealthy than many people who have babies, so I'm not suggesting this means the couple will be unfit parents! I just think that this is probably a person who rejected what the family and culture they were raised in presented as the acceptable options available to women, but I do find it hard to see how he can truly say he doesn't feel like a woman if he's performing a biological function only available to women.

[giana]

I dont know....I think some things are made to have a "shock" factor in the society.I dont see why,if it were just to have a baby,he should be all over the press...I dont know....there are so many issues that can arise from this I cant even start saying.And well...he made the choice to become a man and thats was his decision so I think that he should fill in the role model of a guy 100%....guys do not get pregnant you know...I believe transgenderism is a complicated issue...but it makes me wonder if he is really a transgender or not...What I disaprove the most is the exposure...makes me wonder what their true intentions are.I think this kinda of situation somehow endangers the way people see the transgender situation with the seriousness that it deserves

[MathSpeak]

I always take really safe positions on what people do in their own lives and it's not because I don't care, but... I guess I kinda don't... LOL I mean I have enough to worry about.
However, for some reason, this strikes me as extremely odd. I do have a problem with it. Not worth the space it takes to type it, but I think Lori pinpointed a few of the reasons I have an issue.
My first issue is with calling this person a man - surgical implications, notwithstanding - how is she at all living the life that an ordinary male would live? Men don't get pregnant, period. It has nothing to do with gender roles, AT ALL, it's biological... and to me, that just proves that you can't outsmart science. So, if you are a woman who wants to be in relationships with women and do what women do (i.e. get pregnant), then I think they have a name for that... lesbian. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but it's CLEAR that this woman is just a tad bit confused. Wearing a hat and slacks doesn't make you a man any more than quacking would make you a duck. I think there are a lot of things about ourselves we can change. Fundamentally, women can not be men... but if they want to trick themselves into thinking they can, then why blur the lines with a pregnancy? It's non-sensical to me... not that she would want a child, but that she would continue to think that she's a valid man.
Secondly, I agree that the media being used as outlets isn't a good strategy if they're hoping to live a normal life. Honestly, there's nothing fascinating about a woman being pregnant... it happens... what I guess is fascinating is that anyone dare tout this story as a man being pregnant. Incredible! A real man becoming pregnant - VERY newsworthy, in my opnion... but a lesbian choosing to have a baby is not a novel idea! I'm annoyed that people are legitimizing this woman's claim to manhood :(
I'll come back with my final idea... I have to think of how I'm going to frame it...

[Kristen]

Well, I think homosexuality(which is what this is) is wrong, but I don't think it's wrong for this person to be pregnant.

I agree with Anika about it just being a woman having a baby...a very manly looking woman, to be sure, but that person is still a woman biologically speaking.. There's really nothing that newsworthy about it, other than that this person is a very strange looking pregnant woman.

[Desirae]

Ditto to Kristen. The main point annoying me is what ANika first mentioned about it NOT being a man who is pregnant.

[MathSpeak]

LOL I just read an article on yahoo.news that quoted this woman as saying "it's a miracle!"... what is miraculous about a woman with woman parts, apparently, getting pregnant? If she had blocked tubes, or something, and her dr. told her there was only a -1% chance of her getting pregnant, then fine... call it a miracle. But, I'm not getting the miracle part of this whole situation.

[Lori]

So, if you are a woman who wants to be in relationships with women and do what women do (i.e. get pregnant), then I think they have a name for that... lesbian...Honestly, there's nothing fascinating about a woman being pregnant... it happens... what I guess is fascinating is that anyone dare tout this story as a man being pregnant. Incredible! A real man becoming pregnant - VERY newsworthy, in my opnion... but a lesbian choosing to have a baby is not a novel idea!

This is basically what I was thinking, and it's pretty much my take on a lot of transgendered people in general. It does seem like what goes on a lot of the time is that the person in question finds the idea of being gay so horrifying that, instead of acknowledging their homosexuality, they deny it by claiming they are really a person of the opposite sex living inside of their body.

And I agree that it's really absurd to say this story is about a pregnant man. Pregnancy, as you said, has nothing to do with gender roles, it has to do with biology. There is nothing noteworthy or weird about a biological female becoming pregnant. The fact that this biological female lives as a man doesn't make the pregnancy itself unusual. I mean, how ridiculously insulting would it be if a story about a stay-at-home dad were presented as "Mom with a penis!"? Just because somebody lives in a way that defies traditional gender roles doesn't mean that they are biologically a member of the other gender.

Like I said, I just find it sad. I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for why this person feels that identifying as a man is what they need to do, but I can't help but think that it would be healthier to accept that they are a woman who may enjoy traditionally masculine pursuits and who wants to be in a relationship with other women. In other words, just living as a butch lesbian woman. There is a level at which a woman saying she is a man seems a bit delusional to me. I think there's enough room within the categories of "woman" to fit everybody who is biologically female, no matter how little they may have in common with traditional feminine stereotypes. I'd rather see our ideas of what it means to be a woman or a man expanded than to see people who don't fit the traditional definitions feeling compelled to identify as the other gender.

[stormy]

I agree with Mathspeak in that this is not a pregnant man at all. That was the first thing I said when I heard about it. It's a pregnant woman who looks like a man. Now a pregnant man, that would be something entirely different.

I also agree with Lori in that for the most part transgendered people make me sad. I honestly think that many of these people have a psychological condition in which they don't feel comfortable in their own bodies and feel the need to have surgery to feel more themselves, much as people with body dysmorphic disorder will seek out multiple plastic surgeries to correct what they see as flaws. Everyone is different in so many ways and for a woman to dress and act as man is no problem. I just find if sort of extreme for them to go so far as to remove their breasts and have other surgeries.

Of course, I've never felt that I shouldn't be a woman, so I don't know how they feel and I know that for most legal US sex re-assignment surgery they are required to undergo intense counseling first.

That's sort of off topic. But to answer the question, no I do not think it's wrong for this person to be pregnant. If you have ability to be pregnant and to be a parent then go for it!

[gr8mommy]

If he hasn't had the surgery to remove the uterus and ovaries, he isn't truly transgendered yet.

I know that for most legal US sex re-assignment surgery they are required to undergo intense counseling first.


According to a show I watched on TV, transgendered people are supposed to live as their preferred gender 24/7 for a minimum of a year before having the surgery.

Going public is turning their situation into a freak show, and it makes me very very sad for that little baby. S/he and the wife have chosen their situation, this little baby hasn't, and from birth onward will be referred to as Name, the child born of a pregnant man.

[giana]

Absolutely agree with Denise...And I dont understand also...since a transgendered person should have 100% features of the opposite sex before gets the "transgender" stuatus....dudes dont have babies...this person is kinda of a basket case....very sad

[Jo]

I wonder if they went public because they thought it would leak anyway. This gave them the chance to tell their story from their side first. I am not sure I would have done the same thing though.

[Lori]

I don't know if it's the official way things are defined, but a lot of times you'll see "transgendered" used to refer to people who remain their original biological sex but live as the other gender (in this case, a female living as a man) and "transsexual" used to refer to people who actually become surgically reassigned to the other sex (a female having their female reproductive organs removed and their genitals altered to look male).

I do agree with giana that it's hard for me to see in what sense this person is now actually transgendered. You aren't living as a man if you are pregnant. It's just hard to see why this is such a big story. If a female-to-male transsexual became pregnant, THAT would indeed be big news, since they'd lack female sex organs. But, this is just a biological female getting pregnant.

[gr8mommy]

You know, I read the article on this pair that's in the current People magazine. Apparently s/he managed to have the gender changed on a reissued birth certificate AND driver's license. I'd really like to know how that was done without proof of surgery. While this time it may have been done in good faith, think of the nightmare scenarios of someone that wanted to pose as the other gender for criminal purposes.

Beyond that, after reading it I'm convinced that s/he is simply a very confused person who isn't comfortable being labeled a lesbian.

[Tobye]

Seems like everybody has some good points. When I first saw this headline, and the fact that it was being touted as a "miracle" I thought it was an actual man who had somehow cheated nature and gotten pregnant. Now THAT would be a miracle. But a woman who chose to become half a man getting pregnant doesn't really carry the same amazingness.

I think that Denise is right in that this is a very confused and self-hating woman who wasn't willing to label herself a lesbian.

[Jo]

I was thinking more about the reasons that this person did not go through the surgery and I can think of a couple of logical ones that have nothing to do with how confused she might be.

First, insurance doesn't usually cover the surgery so it could be a financial consideration. The surgery also does not always work that well. You would have much better success if you were a man becoming a woman. Since her clitoris did enlarge so much due to hormones, she could have decided it was better to keep what she had and use it easily. If she had the surgery, she would most likely have to use pumps to inflate to gain an erection and the sensation might not be as great.

She also might simply be confused and self hating and not very thoughtful at all for all I know.:giggle

[MathSpeak]

Very valid points, Jo, but I read somewhere - and I can go and dig it up - that the reason she didn't have the surgery is that she knew she'd want kids someday... If that's the case, your last line sums it up! LOL

[Joy]

I dont know....I think some things are made to have a "shock" factor in the society.I dont see why,if it were just to have a baby,he should be all over the press...I dont know....there are so many issues that can arise from this I cant even start saying.And well...he made the choice to become a man and thats was his decision so I think that he should fill in the role model of a guy 100%....guys do not get pregnant you know...I believe transgenderism is a complicated issue...but it makes me wonder if he is really a transgender or not...What I disaprove the most is the exposure...makes me wonder what their true intentions are.I think this kinda of situation somehow endangers the way people see the transgender situation with the seriousness that it deserves

I agree, I think this is very out of the ordinary and certainly getting alot of press from their story. So it makes me wonder too if they have true intentions or are trying to get everyone to jump on their story to make money? If they have true intentions, then I think this would be a private matter within their own family. :sigh