Dead`deer debate question

[BigDave]

OK so I have hunting on my mind 24/7 right now, even though I cannot go.

The other night I had to go to a meeting and along the way I saw a police car pulled up behind another car. In front of that car was a massive 8 point buck, I mean HUGE. It was heavy in its musculature and the rack was long and thick.

the next day I told some of my work buddies about this and they told me that if the guy did not have a tag and paid $10 he could keep the deer. If he had the tag (which costs $27) he could keep the deer.

Here is my question, do you think this is right? If a deer runs out in front of my car and I hit it, shouldn't I be able to keep it without cost? Please, help me to see if i am wrong. This state taxes us enough so why do they need another $10? if a doe is hit most people just leave it and there are more does than bucks hit.

help me understand.

[Jo]

I am confused my what you told me. I figure that if a deer jumps in front of my car and I take it with me, then it is cheaper for the state because they don't have to clean it up. But if I don't want the darn thing in the first place and it ran in front of me, why should I have to pay the state for it?

[Maleah]

That just seems dumb to me. I know in AR if you hit a deer you can take it with you. And if you don't want it, you can call it in to police and usually someone will be out in a minute to pick it up. Everyone has scanners so most of the time, they even beat the cops out to it.

[Mary]

OMG...I am just scratching my head (and laughing my ass off) at the idea of someone going out and picking up roadkill to eat. Cripes. Maybe it's because I'm from California...or perhaps because I disapprove of hunting but that is very odd to me.

[gr8mommy]

I call baloney. If you hit an 8 pt buck with anything other than a tank, you're likely as dead as the deer.

No, I don't think if you 'hit' a deer you should be able to keep it, nor do I think you should buy it. I'm thinking more for health reasons than anything else.

[Lisa]

wow, that's weird. Here in OHio if you hit the deer you have the option of keeping it for free. My mom hit a huge 8 pter too. She couldn't keep it because my dh was working and had no truck to take it. It then went to the next person on a list that people can get on to get the deer if the person who hit it doesn't want it.

THe only thing I can think of is they are doing it to try and deter people from poaching by using their vehicle to hit the deer on purpose.

[Lisa]

I call baloney. If you hit an 8 pt buck with anything other than a tank, you're likely as dead as the deer.

No, I don't think if you 'hit' a deer you should be able to keep it, nor do I think you should buy it. I'm thinking more for health reasons than anything else.

not nessesarily on the first one. My mother hit a very large 8 pt buck with her little sunfire car. Not much damage to the car but the deers back was broken as she hit it back legs.

Also, I don't understand your stance for not keeping the deer period. What do you mean by health reasons? As long as the deer is in good condition (like the one my mom hit) and not pulverized, there should be no reason to keep the deer and use the meat. It's rather wasteful and irresponsible not too. I hate seeing dead deer on the side of the road. It's unfortunate that it was hit but it's really too bad when it's just wasted like that.

[YourMom]

not nessesarily on the first one. My mother hit a very large 8 pt buck with her little sunfire car. Not much damage to the car but the deers back was broken as she hit it back legs.

Also, I don't understand your stance for not keeping the deer period. What do you mean by health reasons? As long as the deer is in good condition (like the one my mom hit) and not pulverized, there should be no reason to keep the deer and use the meat. It's rather wasteful and irresponsible not too. I hate seeing dead deer on the side of the road. It's unfortunate that it was hit but it's really too bad when it's just wasted like that.

:yup (Except I think my mom hit a biggish deer with a Chevette back in the 80's.)

[SabrinaJL]

OMG...I am just scratching my head (and laughing my ass off) at the idea of someone going out and picking up roadkill to eat. Cripes. Maybe it's because I'm from California...or perhaps because I disapprove of hunting but that is very odd to me.

Out of curiosity, why do you disapprove of hunting? Do you disapprove of hunting for sport, hunting for food or both? I think that killing an animal so you can have a "trophy" is pretty vile, but I have absolutely no problem with hunting for food.

I know a family who rarely ever goes to a grocery store. Most of their food comes from a huge garden they keep and the things they hunt. Now I think THAT'S actually pretty cool.

[gr8mommy]

Also, I don't understand your stance for not keeping the deer period. What do you mean by health reasons?

I'm no expert, but I'd think that any deer that manages to get hit would be more likely to carry disease than one you have to actively pursue? Deer are all over the place here, but generally the ones you see (which are the more likely to be hit) don't appear very healthy.

I've often heard that reason cited for why people in NJ can't keep animals they've hit with their cars. Admittedly, I don't know what the current situation here is, because I don't really keep up with that sort of regulation.

[SabrinaJL]

How do you figure that one, Denise? So does the same logic follow with pedestrians who are hit by cars?

To me, deer, just as people, can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Especially as we encroach more and more on their habitats.

[Jejune]

I used to disapprove of hunting when I was a kid. And then I got a little older and thought a bit about how most animals we eat are raised and slaughtered, and then hunting started to look pretty appealing. And then hunters almost single handedly saved the California wetlands, because they wanted to be able to hunt ducks, and I was sold. I'm pretty well pro hunting at this point.

Anyway, I don't think people should be charged for roadkill. Much of the time, it's not dirtier than food that's been hunted, and it seems better to eat an animal than to waste it. If the police had reason to believe that the guy was a hunter who had shot the deer without a license, that's one thing. The only way I can understand the charge is if the state thinks people intentionally go "hunting" with their cars. Although I can't imagine anyone wanting to hit a deer. My brother hit one when it jumped on his car and the car was pretty well smashed, but the deer ran off. Those things can total a vehicle.

[gr8mommy]

How do you figure that one, Denise? So does the same logic follow with pedestrians who are hit by cars?

To me, deer, just as people, can be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Especially as we encroach more and more on their habitats.


Depends on the pedestrian. :D

Regarding the deer, I just said that it seems the one that come closer to 'civilization' seem less than healthy. If I had a choice to eat meat from a deer that had been hit v. one that had been actively hunted (assuming I'd eat deer at all), I'd choose the hunted one. Just an opinion.

[Jo]

I'm no expert, but I'd think that any deer that manages to get hit would be more likely to carry disease than one you have to actively pursue? Deer are all over the place here, but generally the ones you see (which are the more likely to be hit) don't appear very healthy.

Often, the deer don't look healthy because their population is too large for their environment. They generally would not have anything wrong with them otherwise. Also, most of the deer that get hit are in the fall during the rut. They are a bit distracted then.:giggle

Mary-I am curious why you are against hunting. In many cases, we are needed to act as the predator since we have changed the natural environment so much. Up north in Minnesota, the deer population is far too large and hunting is needed to lower the number. Otherwise, more will starve and that seems to be a much worse death than a quick gun shot.

On a personal level, I am not a hunting fan because I think it is oogy. I also try not to think about where any of my meat comes from. Just let me believe that it is born into little plastic wrapped packages and I am happy. But ideologically, I fully support most hunting.

[SabrinaJL]

Depends on the pedestrian. :D


I have to argue with this one. Despite what it may seem like, stupidity is NOT a disease. :rofl

[Jejune]

Up north in Minnesota, the deer population is far too large and hunting is needed to lower the number. Otherwise, more will starve and that seems to be a much worse death than a quick gun shot.


That's true in California as well. Our deer population is out of hand. I like seeing deer, but they are too numerous here, and it's actually bringing back our mountain lion population, which would be good if deer weren't heading into human territory. Lion attacks on humans have definitely increased. (http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_ca.html) We had a day last year when I went to pick Gabriel up from school, and they were not releasing the kids outside the classroom. They were sent home with a note that a lion had been spotted crossing the street nearby.

[Maleah]

Most deer are hit during mating season. They're attracted to clearings when looking for a mate and that's why they end up near roads. And during the winter when food starts to get thin, they're attracted to the ditches that still have grass where in the forest the grass patches have started to die.

I don't think it really has to do with anything about the deer being diseased or dumb. With so many of them, they just run out of room.

[Renita]

I grew up with a hunting family. This is how we survived, most winters. Hunting deer & elk is a very big deal for us. Imagine my shock when I moved to the midwest and realized that all hunting was done with a GUN! :giggle We use traditional bow & arrow. Growing up, my uncles would set up a bulls eye target in the backyard and have me practice shooting arrows.... In the state of NM, there is a specific time period for bow & arrow hunting. Ya learn something new everyday....LOL

[Kristen]

Out of curiosity, why do you disapprove of hunting? Do you disapprove of hunting for sport, hunting for food or both? I think that killing an animal so you can have a "trophy" is pretty vile, but I have absolutely no problem with hunting for food.


I completely agree. And Joshua's newpaper he gets was just talking about areas in the U.S. where wild animal populations are soaring to record numbers because not enough people are hunting. They're actually trying to get more people to hunt there.

[YourMom]

Regarding the deer, I just said that it seems the one that come closer to 'civilization' seem less than healthy.

I guess my perspective is different, since there are large stretches of uninhabited road frontage between my subdivision and the nearest town. In those stretches, there just happens to be a paved "clearing" in the woods as far as the deer are concerned.

[Lisa]

Depends on the pedestrian. :D

Regarding the deer, I just said that it seems the one that come closer to 'civilization' seem less than healthy. If I had a choice to eat meat from a deer that had been hit v. one that had been actively hunted (assuming I'd eat deer at all), I'd choose the hunted one. Just an opinion.

Deer generally get hit this time of year because of the rut season. The does are running and the bucks are pursuing because they are in heat. There is also an over population of deer in most places wich then puts less land for the deer to survive on. A deer does not get hit because it has disease. It's usually hit because it's pursuing a doe or trying to get to another area for food and bed.

[gr8mommy]

I think things may be different here. I am in a fairly densely populated suburb, and while we have quite a few deer in the more thickly wooded areas, I've never even seen a buck---just very young, skinny animals.

[Lori]

The state would have to pay me to get me to take a deer I hit with my car. ;)

[Polly]

Your state is weird. You should be able to keep that buck, free of cost. You are rendering them a public service by taking it.

Polly

[BigDave]

The only reason to really keep the buck, if it is huge like the one I saw would be for the rack if it was not broken. This is not for health reasons at all. When you hit and animal its body has the same reaction as a humans. When we get into a physical altercation our adrenaline rises, same in a deer who was hit by a car. This rush of adrenaline "taints" the meat and it tastes horrible.

I have eaten tainted meat before and it is really, really bad. I have eaten a lot of different animals and the ones I really hate are squirrel, possum and raccoon. I would rather eat those again than tainted venison.

[Beka]

In England it's poaching to take an animal you hit with your car, by law (although not a fiercely enforced one as the majority of the country doesn't deal with rural living issues being so built up as it is) you have to leave it for the car behind.

It is rare people hit deer here, again the lack of rural space thing, my sister has hit a couple of pheasant in her lifetime (most hilarious being the time she stunned one and thought it was dead, put it in the trunk to go bury it, because she felt sorry for it- seriously, not joking here- and when she opened the trunk it went postal on her :rofl :lmao )

I grew up knowing my dads bestfriend lived in Australia and had a glass eye, I spent my whole childhood believing it had happened when a kangaroo had hit his car, it was only when I was pg with my eldest he actually told me it was far less glamorous- he'd lost his eye to infection after a dart flight cut his eye in a pub... boy did i feel like an idiot for believing the killer-skippy story for near on 18 years :rofl :lmao

[Maleah]

That's really funny, Beka. LOL

[Christine]

Out of curiosity, wouldn't a hunted animal also have the same adrenaline reaction?

[Beka]

I was wondering that Christine- my thought was hit by a car, like humans, they wouldn't even have time to register what was going to happen (even less so as humans understand cars/road death issues) - I'd have thought a spooked deer, in full fight or flight reaction would have been more tainted? (but then again can't say I've ever been hunting so no idea)

[Kristen]

I wondered that too, Christine...although I suppose good hunters have the element of surprise, and the deer doesn't have time to get scared?

[Desirae]

I have to agree that it doesnt' seem right that you'd have to PAY for the deer. I know that in WI you can just keep it if you hit it... however, if you just happen to be there when it is hit and the person who hit it doesn't want it you can't keep it.

[BigDave]

Out of curiosity, wouldn't a hunted animal also have the same adrenaline reaction?

It depends. A good hunter will kill with one shot and will not let the animal know they are there, so the animal never gets the rush. However, if the hunter is a bad shot or makes a mistake and the animal runs after the shot then yes. There are those out there that believe that if you marinate the meat enough the taint can be removed, but I have eaten marinated tainted meat and it is horrible. No matter how much marinating goes on the meat tastes bad. Also if you shoot the animal in the gut and pierce the gut sack you don't want anything at all to do with the meat. The bacteria can be deadly, as it is with any animal whose stomach or intestines come in contact with the meat.

[Christine]

That makes sense! Thank you. :)

[yummymommy]

I have no idea what the law is here, I see dead deer on the side of the road all the time, and I have never heard of someone taking one with them after they have hit one. And I'm with Lori, you'd have to pay me to take it if I hit it! I have never eaten venison or anything other than the norm, beef, pork, chicken etc and I to would prefer to believe it is born into a nice little package in the store lol

[Godagesil]

The adrenaline cause is a myth. Glycogen is stored in the muscle. Post mortem the muscle tries to continue normal metabolism and produces lactic acid. The presence of the lactic acid gives meat the bright red appearance we see. If the animal is stressed, or has been fleeing, muscle glycogen stores are depleted. Lactic acid does not build up in the muscle post mortem, so the pH of the muscle is raised. This gives the meat a dark sticky color and texture. Here is where scientists disagree. Some say the lower pH also allows bacteria to flourish and can result in off flavors souring etc. Others say no. In fact dark cutting meat beef is reported to be used by food services because it is cooked before we see it. It would not be to agreeable to put it on display at the market. The meat industry has known about the phenomena since the late 1800's.
I personally have never had bad venison, but then I don't shoot at running deer. I have had dark cutting elk, it WAS sticky and dark reddish purple. Knowing the hunter who gave it to me, I am not surprised. Handling or miss handling of the meat, venison or whatever is the prime culprit of off tasting meat.

[Jejune]

The adrenaline cause is a myth. Glycogen is stored in the muscle. Post mortem the muscle tries to continue normal metabolism and produces lactic acid. The presence of the lactic acid gives meat the bright red appearance we see. If the animal is stressed, or has been fleeing, muscle glycogen stores are depleted. Lactic acid does not build up in the muscle post mortem, so the pH of the muscle is raised. This gives the meat a dark sticky color and texture. Here is where scientists disagree. Some say the lower pH also allows bacteria to flourish and can result in off flavors souring etc. Others say no. In fact dark cutting meat beef is reported to be used by food services because it is cooked before we see it. It would not be to agreeable to put it on display at the market. The meat industry has known about the phenomena since the late 1800's.
I personally have never had bad venison, but then I don't shoot at running deer. I have had dark cutting elk, it WAS sticky and dark reddish purple. Knowing the hunter who gave it to me, I am not surprised. Handling or miss handling of the meat, venison or whatever is the prime culprit of off tasting meat.

This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing - I have a book on the physiological effects of stress, but since it's mostly focused on the affects of stress on humans, it never gets around to taste. And this makes a lot more sense to me, since I would think that many animals are in some state of stress when they die.