Is the United States a (uniquely) violent country?

[Lori]

I keep hearing people on both sides of the gun control issue saying, in response to the shooting in VA, that America is a violent country. I think that's obviously meant in the context of other industrialized nations, because if we take places like Sudan into it, clearly we're not uniquely violent. But, when compared to countries we have more socioeconomic similarities with, we do seem to be.

So, is the United States a uniquely violent country among industrialized nations? If so, why? Is it the culture? The people? The laws? If not, why is the rate of violent crime (not the numbers, but the rate) so much higher than in most other industrialized countries?

I'm also interested to know if people from other countries believe that the U.S. is uniquely violent, and why they think that is or isn't the case.

[Beka]

Oh- i have big opinions on this one (as recently been discussing the escalating culture of violence in Britain- I once took part in a lecture where we were actually advised Britain is the most violent country in Europe and given the freedoms of weapon control that the USA has would have higher murder rates due to the fact Britain is more violent & rage fuelled in it's nature- theory being if we had greater access to guns, murder rates would sky rocket.) so i shall be back to post more, I am however currently on my way to bed so my opinions will have to wait for the morning to be expressed.

[Lori]

This is one of those things I don't understand at all. I don't think that Americans are uniquely violent individuals. We have a history of violence, but there are many other countries that do, that don't have nearly the rate of violent crime that we do. We enjoy violent entertainment, but so do people in other countries. The United States is far more religious than many nations with far lower violent crime rates, so it's certainly not that we don't have enough religion. I don't think Americans are by nature less moral than anyone else. Other countries have poor people. Other countries have oppressed racial minorities. I think that gun laws are a part of it, but I don't think (although I could be wrong) they're the only part of it.

So I have no idea. I do think the United States is more violent than other similar countries, given the statistics on violent crime, but it's hard to see a reason why that's the case.

[Beka]

I think some of that has to be attributed to where a person lives though- it is very easy to consider ones own country to be more violent when living within it, experiencing alot of domestic media but only limited international media. England to me is a very violent society at present because i live very close to the second city, to someone outside of England or even in more affluent, rural areas of England might not view it as such a violent place as the image they gain from an external view and the limited media which crosses international boarders doesn't portray the true picture, as i am sure is the case with many parts of America too. Living in a violent society can be very worrisome at times and it is logical that a person living in a violent society considers their own situation worse than any other.

[Lori]

Beka, I do agree that perspective is a big issue. But, the homocide rate in the United States is several times higher than it is in other industralized nations, even though the overall crime rate is similar. So why are Americans killing each other more frequently than people in many nations we'd consider ourselves similar to (Canada, England, Germany, France)? I just don't think it's because we're somehow more murderous.

[Beka]

Another interesting point to throw in before i finally head to bed- one that confuses me so it'll interest me to see other peoples theories on why-

America is one of the few industrialised countries who still allows the death penalty for murder- why is it's murder rate still one of the highest? (as in all sense of logic a fiercer punishment should act as a deterant but it doesn't appear to if we're talking statistics)

[gr8mommy]

The United States is far more religious than many nations with far lower violent crime rates

What do you mean by that? The US isn't a 'religious' nation in my eyes. Do you mean there are more citizens that self-describe as religious? Percentage of the population attending worship services regularly? I'm not really sure where you got this or if you have anything to back it up.

So why are Americans killing each other more frequently than people in many nations we'd consider ourselves similar to
According to a study released from Berkeley a number of years ago, most American killings stem from arguments, and some 70 percent involve guns. I'd say that's the most likely reason.

[Lori]

What do you mean by that? The US isn't a 'religious' nation in my eyes. Do you mean there are more citizens that self-describe as religious? Percentage of the population attending worship services regularly? I'm not really sure where you got this or if you have anything to back it up.

If you look at studies of rates of religious participation in the world right now, the United States has far, far more people who identify as part of a religious group and who attend worship services than in most European nations. You often see certain commentators arguing that the reason why there's so much violence in the United States (as well as everything else that's wrong with it), is because we've somehow taken God out of the country. But European countries with much lower crime rates (Germany, England, France, Italy, Sweden, the Netherlands, etc.) are far more secular. So I don't think the problem can be attributed to secularism or to the decline of certain traditional forms of religious belief and practice, because those have declined far more in other countries that also have many fewer homocides.

There have been a number of studies that have reported this, but this one (http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=167) was a big one. This (http://www.umich.edu/~urecord/0304/Nov24_03/15.shtml) states some stats on church attendance, which I've seen in other places, as well.

[Maleah]

According to a study released from Berkeley a number of years ago, most American killings stem from arguments, and some 70 percent involve guns. I'd say that's the most likely reason.

This is one of the issues that I am really ignorant on. I am on really up on the debate. We don't own a gun and I haven't even shot one in 12 years or so.

What gr8mommy said struck a cord with me. I wonder if the gun violence rates have anything to do with how our society conducts itself in arguments/conflict. I don't think we've taught our children how to argue for a couple of generations now.

Some examples would be road rage, parents acting poorly at sports games, marital spats becoming physical, etc. Even some of our officials resort to violence like the GA state rep that decked a capitol officer when he tried to get her to stop and ID herself. Not too long ago, there was a story in the news about a boy who was being teased after a baseball game and hit his teaser in the head with a bat. I think it killed him.

Have you ever heard a "debate" on talk radio between people of opposite parties. :gangup Its a good thing most of them are phoned in otherwise they sound like they'd break down into physical fights.

There are quite a few public figures that seem to be incapable of debating for more than 5 seconds without slinging some pretty awful mud.

Just from my personal experience, there was a lot of arguments in my house growing up between me and my parents and then between my parents. They were just fights that never went anywhere. And in school, I was in the principal’s office when another student attacked me, the best they could do was say "Well, you won't get along with anyone. Just try to stay away from her." :shakehead

Anyway, I could probably think of more apt examples if my head wasn't splitting open and I didn't have a wiggly toddler on my lap.

Basically what I am saying is that I think some gun violence stems from lack of conflict resolution being taught.

[gr8mommy]

If you look at studies of rates of religious participation in the world right now, the United States has far, far more people who identify as part of a religious group and who attend worship services than in most European nations.


Identifying as part of a religious group and attending worship services don't necessarily make one religious, nor does it mean they're any good at living it. I don't see that as having anything, positive or negative, to say about the rate of violence. Those links don't say anything about it, either. I'm curious as to whether there is anything out there that does, unfortunately I don't have time to look.

[Lori]

Oh, in general I don't think that Americans are more violent because they're more religious. On some level, I do think that our conceptions of God very much shape how we treat others, so it's more dangerous to have a society where many people conceive of a violent and vengeful God than one where they believe in no God at all. But, on another level, there's little if no evidence that religious belief, in the United States, is correlated with violent behavior. The closet I've ever seen as been the argument that the number of atheists in prison is pretty miniscule (http://www.skepticfiles.org/american/prison.htm), compared to the percentage of atheists in the general population, but I imagine that if you control for socioeconomic status and education level, it would turn out that atheists matched with religious people from similar backgrounds would be equally as likely to commit crimes.

But you do often hear, after a tragedy like this, Christian talk-radio hosts and TV preachers arguing that the reason is that we don't have the Ten Commandments in schools, or that we're becoming too secular of a nation. I don't buy that at all, given that we're much more religious than a lot of countries where there's much less homocide, and quite a bit less religious than many countries where genocides and horrific civil wars are being waged. There doesn't seem to be any evidence to support the idea that lack of religion in a country leads to more violent crime.

[ColleenC]

I don't think that the US is more violent than other countries. I think that we hear about it more because some of the biggest tv networks are in the States and the States has WAY more people than most countries. I know that even though I live in Canada 98% of the tv I watch is on an american station so I hear all about the crime. I also think it's just a more 'visible' country with a huge population.

Canada has a huge amount of crime, in fact my city has the highest murder rate per capita(in Canada) right now thanks to the big economic boom and all the people that are moving here. Do you hear about our crime?

We also have had school shootings
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/americas/9904/29/canada.shooting/index.html That one was here in Alberta
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/09/13/shots-dawson.html and this one just happened in September. Not sure if you guys had heard of those or not.

[Danielle]

Rates for all homicides are 3.8 times higher in the United States than in Canada. For 1987-96, the average homicide rate was 8.8 per 100,000 people in the U.S., compared to 2.3 per 100,000 in Canada.
A much greater proportion of homicides in the United States involve firearms. For 1987-96, 65% of homicides in the U.S. involved firearms, compared to 32% for Canada. Handgun homicide data are available for 1989-95. During those years, 52% of homicides in the U.S. involved handguns, compared to 14% in Canada.
Firearm homicide rates in the United States are 8.1 times higher than in Canada. For 1987-96, the average firearm homicide rate was 5.7 per 100,000 in the U.S., compared to 0.7 per 100,000 in Canada.
Handgun homicide rates in the United States are 15.3 times higher than in Canada. Based on available data for 1989-95, the average handgun homicide rate was 4.8 per 100,000 in the U.S., compared to 0.3 per 100,000 in Canada.
Between 1987 and 1996, firearm homicide rates increased slightly (+2%) in the United States but decreased (-7%) in Canada. On the other hand, both countries reported a decrease in the overall homicide rate (-11% in the U.S. and -13% in Canada).

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Canada-351/Violent-Crime-Question.htm

While homicide and robbery rates are significantly higher in the United States, firearm homicide rates and firearm robbery rates show even greater differences between the two countries.

The above study is from 1998.

I also found this...

In recent years the gap between in crime rates between the United States and Canada has been narrowing, with the Canadian rates more or less holding steady except for minor annual fluctuations while the US rate has continued to drop for over a decade. The current US murder rate is 2.5 times that of Canada per capita, this is down from about 3.5 times as high during the early 1990's. Approximately 70% of the total murders in the US are commited with firearms, which is roughly double the percentage of Canada. The US has more than 5 times the rate of firearm murders than Canada.

http://www.answers.com/topic/crime-in-canada

[gr8mommy]

Lori, there's an old saying that 'there aren't any atheists in foxholes'. I believe that is essentially the case with the increase of 'religious' in prison---either people truly seeking to turn their lives around and accepting God, or those who think professing faith will help get them paroled.

But you do often hear, after a tragedy like this, Christian talk-radio hosts and TV preachers arguing that the reason is that we don't have the Ten Commandments in schools, or that we're becoming too secular of a nation. I don't buy that at all, given that we're much more religious than a lot of countries where there's much less homocide, and quite a bit less religious than many countries where genocides and horrific civil wars are being waged. There doesn't seem to be any evidence to support the idea that lack of religion in a country leads to more violent crime.

And again, I reiterate my point that those professing to be 'religious' and even those attending worship services regularly in self-reported surveys aren't necessarily
1)telling the truth
2)living what their faith professes

If so many people are claiming to attend worship services, why is it that nearly every denomination, across the board, reports that attendance is down? I think people self-report in ways that make them appear to be living a Godly life, when in reality they only think about it at most for an hour on Sunday morning (or Saturday, or Friday, etc.)